If looks could kill

Cubicle 7 // 2018
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WFRP98
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:27 pm

Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:08 pm

I’m going to be running a new campaign and starting with “If looks could Kill” scenario. Has anyone run this before and any tips or Issues you had during it? My group is new to 4th edition but lots of 2nd and 1st experience.
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Orin J.
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Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:27 pm

it's very straightforward and honestly a little threadbare, so i doubt you'll run into any problems. my only concern is that the right character might try to stay close to the man that hires the adventurers which can halt the adventure (because it requires him to spend a large portion of time alone while the group is off chasing treasure digging) because of a player that wants to avoid "brute labor". you can maybe use the paymaster to distract anyone that threatens to do that.
RancidWalrus
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:28 am

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:19 am

Halfway through it at the moment - enjoying the opportunity to ham up some Strigany accents! ;)
I got a bit caught out by the attack by the Stirpike - I didnt realise at first, but if I'm understanding it properly it can't make normal attacks - it has no 'weapon' trait. Either that or it only adds its base strength? Regardless, it can charge to gain advantage to spend on a (free) bite or tail attack, and due to its large size disengage for free, very much being a hit and run fish. I think.

I'm concerned the final encounter will be a let-down - I tried to limit my players from stacking too much WS or melee skill, but still ended up with a warrior priest with 50 and a warhammer.
WFRP98
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:27 pm

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:19 pm

Interested in how that turns out. I am going to add in a bit of a fight before they get on the boat, give some action up front and a chance for everyone to try out the combat mechanics with lower stakes before the end battle
Certain Death
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Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:56 pm

I'm not sure that they really thought through the inclusion of two larger monsters in this early campaign, espeically the Basilisk. So far as I can see it the Beast of Ortsclamm has the following rules to consider:
  • Intimidate 75, pg 123 opposed check vs. cool or cause fear
  • Bestial:
    Will shy away from fire
    Flee @ half wounds
    Only uses dodge in defense - Dodge 10
  • Bite 7 (45) - Spend 1 Advantage for a free attack
  • Cold Blooded - reverse failed WP tests
  • Immunity to Poison
  • Infected - Easy (+40) Endurance @ end of battle if wounded, Failed means festering wounds
  • Petrifying Gaze Pg340 - As action sacrifice all advantage then opposed BS (15) vs. inititiative with +1SL per advantage spent. Target is stunned if 2SL or turned to stone on 6SL!
  • Size Enormous pg 341
    Blows are Damaging - higher score of roll of SL or units die
    Blows have Impact - Add units die to damage
  • Deathblow Pg160 - on hits (not enemy death) creature my step and attack again up to WS bonus times (twice)
  • Due to size attackers gain +10 to hit
  • Defendes of beast's attacks suffer -2SL unless dodging
  • Beast causes Terror 2 (or Terror 3 in Halflings) Pg191 - check Broken rules on pg168, but briefly:
    Move action must be to run away, -10 on all tests that are not running away
    Cannot rally when engaged
    Cool test to remove one condtion in the right circumstances
    Gain Fatigued condition upon recovery
    Read Fleeing
    Beast gains 1 advantage +1 free attack vs opposed melee with +20 to hit. If hit character must make Challenging (+0) Cool test or be broken
  • Moving - beast is not pinned by smaller creatures
  • Opposed STR checks are auto win
  • Stomp - free attackby spending 1 Advantage (unlikely as bite is better)
  • Stride pg 342 - Run multipler x1.5
  • Venom - once hit characters must make Challenging (+0) Enduarance test or be poisoned pg 169
    Poisoned at end of each round lose 1W
    -10 to all tests
    At 0W bad things happen!
  • Hit location table for eigth legged creature - not discussed! Spider?
  • Tail +8 (25) - again more likely to bite, but tail attack can cause prone
  • Damage (due to size) x3 (x4 vs. Halflings) after all modifiers are applied
This is not a simple combat for starting characters to face, nor more importantly for starting GMs to run.

Cubicle 7 - you need to do better
If you are going to include such scenarios then you need to include page refernces (beacuse the aboave are all over the place) and ideally a brief description as I have given
RancidWalrus
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:28 am

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:23 pm

Ah, I had missed the melee skill of 45. That makes it much more dangerous!! I wonder if my group will run away from it once they see it chomp one of the brigands in half.
WFRP98
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Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:45 pm

Thank you for putting all that into a nice list. Agree that the scenarios should have summary lists like this as sidebars, would make running this much easier than jumping back and forth through various pages. It does sound a bit dangerous, especially since most of my PCs are not combat oriented. May have to have a strigny or two follow them on the trail to help out.
Ralph
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Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:26 am

Thanks a lot for the list. This will come in quite handy!
Certain Death
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Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:38 am

WFRP98 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:45 pm
Thank you for putting all that into a nice list. Agree that the scenarios should have summary lists like this as sidebars, would make running this much easier than jumping back and forth through various pages. It does sound a bit dangerous, especially since most of my PCs are not combat oriented. May have to have a strigny or two follow them on the trail to help out.
That's a good call. I've not run teh combat yet, but I get the feeling that winning revolves around the PCs getting advantge and stopping the beast doing so - some extra muscle will help
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Orin J.
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Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:08 am

if your concern is how fighting the monster is gonna go, throwing more bodies at it may not be the answer, since it can kill a hit of them and get a big advantage stack making trying to fight it pointless. you might want to telegraph something to drop on it and stun it if things are looking like they'll go bad enough, like having it circle around and half-topple a tree that starts to creak worryingly overhead or something. gaining a condition resets their advantage, after all.

it's not subtle, but nothing in this system really is.
mormegil
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Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:28 am

Clever use of fortune and resolve can strip any creature of advantage.
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Orin J.
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Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:13 pm

i'm not clear how using fortune/resolve for it's explicit purpose is clever, but the concern isn't that it might gain the advantage and they'll be unable to remove, it's that it's likely to gain the advantage regardless of them resetting it. My suggestion was about providing an environmental advantage for them to exploit so they could gain the advantage instead to prevent them getting killed by papercuts from the monster consistently winning combats and using it to inflict disproportionate wounds on the adventurers. it's probably not likely, but better safe than sorry.
mormegil
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Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:19 am

With outnumbering rules and using dodge to defend, I cannot see how this monster can pile up in advantage. It defends itself from attacks with its agility only.
Certain Death
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Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:47 am

mormegil wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:19 am
With outnumbering rules and using dodge to defend, I cannot see how this monster can pile up in advantage. It defends itself from attacks with its agility only.
I think you're probably right, but with 3x damage (pg341) it could easily kill with a single blow, especially those without a good Dodge (don't forget that characters will suffer -2 SL when defending using melee).
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Orin J.
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Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:41 pm

and then it gets to hit again- i put up the suggestion to give the adventurers an option of winning the required combat without having to be good at combat.
RancidWalrus
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Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:55 am

Certain Death wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:47 am
I think you're probably right, but with 3x damage (pg341) it could easily kill with a single blow, especially those without a good Dodge (don't forget that characters will suffer -2 SL when defending using melee).
2x damage? (pg 341) Which is still heaps.

Regardless, my players took it down no problems, though it ripped apart two of the brigands in the process. To be fair, I was too scared to play it to full effect (eg I didn't maximise deathblow), and I also have notoriously bad dice rolls. We are also capping advantage to I bonus (so 1 for the Basilisk). My group also has a wizard with a petty magic magic missile which was easily stripping away that one advatage. Didn't take them long to get it down to its break point (Bestial).

Still could very easily have gone very very wrong!
Certain Death
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Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:42 pm

3x Damage - it's enormous not large. And as you say you've played down some of the rules, Deathblow effectively means it gets 3 attacks a turn. I have always liked WFRP for it's gritty realism and deadly combat, but this seems a little too much
RancidWalrus
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Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:09 pm

Small > Average > Large > Enormous. Enormous is two steps larger than average, therefore x2 damage, unless I'm missing something?

But yes, did underplay the basilisk. Though the PC's were spread out enough it couldn't engage with more than two at a time anyway, so couldn't have used deathblow for more than two attacks.
Agree that this is unique to our playthrough though!
Turned out to be a good springboard for our campaign
CapnZapp
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Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:04 am

Certain Death wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:56 pm
I'm not sure that they really thought through the inclusion of two larger monsters in this early campaign, espeically the Basilisk. So far as I can see it the Beast of Ortsclamm has the following rules to consider:
Just wanted to thank you for this very useful post, Certain.

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