Any canon examples of characters using both might and magic?

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CapnZapp
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(Posting here in general because I'm asking about Warhammer Lore in general, even though my question revolves around mechanics that makes more sense in 1E and 2E and possibly 4E).

I'm imagining a character for an upcoming campaign that can use both sword and spell - at the same time.

That is, once he gets 2 Attacks, he can swipe with his blade or throw a firebolt with each. Swipe, Swipe. Bolt, Swipe. Swipe, Bolt. You get the point :)

Now then, my GM has asked me to ideally come up with a canon WFRP character that can do something similar as the best way to make him accept the idea (and to make the necessary houserule amendments that basically entails bolting somebody as part of the Attack action rather than Cast a Spell).

So now I'm turning to your collective wisdom. Any hero, character or even monster with an ability like this would help!

PS. The specific idea is to give the character the magical power to cast a firebolt (or something similar) in place of an attack, rather than have to spend the entire round Casting a Spell (which precludes waving my sword around). The spell in question is entirely intended to be no more damaging than a sword swipe or arrow shot, so it's more about style and image than me trying to powergame...
PPS. If you must know, yes, this character concept would be called a "gish" in other roleplaying communities. A character subtly different from WFRP's regular battle wizard. The battle wizard is more like Gandalf from Peter Jackson's movies. He fights with a sword to conserve power and possesses mighty spells. When he's Casting a Spell, he's not Attacking - and vice versa. My character would be able to firebolt (or something similar) people all the time, intermixed with weapon attacks, and would not otherwise have access to mighty spells. He would be more mighty warrior than mighty wizard (if he survives that far!), albeit a warrior that uses magic to fight.
Jadrax
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This is hard to answer tbh.

Fiction tends not to make this distinction as fiction does not measure time in rounds in the first place.

In first edition WFRP I do not believe this is possible, by anyone.

In second edition WFRP Dart (and indeed Fire Ball) are half actions so can be combined with a Standard Attack. Dragons and similar creatures get Speed of Attack, which allows them to make 2 attacks as a Standard Attack. I don't think there is any way of getting a half action Swift Attack.

In WFB mechanics terms, all magic is combined with melee, Wizards do not suffer any loss of Attacks due to casting, which happens in a later phase.
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Orin J.
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really i think there's not many of them, aside from some chaos warriors of tzeentch that briefly show up. the tabletop rules don't really penalize you for doing it at all (unless you count cost) and the lore tends to play up that the magical energies are too dangerous to try to wrangle while fighting. kind of like mixing up some deadly acids while also kickboxing, you don't want to spill some mishandled magic enegies on yourself.
CapnZapp wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:36 am
The battle wizard is more like Gandalf from Peter Jackson's movies.
that's a really strange way of looking at it. gandalf was more of a "avoid using magic first" kind of wizard.
Capitaneus Fractus
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Drachenfelds, perhaps...
And dæmons...
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Jackdays
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So, warrior-wizard… Well, Malekith comes to mind. Tomb Kings, like Settra probably. Vampire Counts, like Vlad.
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Hyarion
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Malekith, most Loremasters of Hoeth (Teclis had the skill with a sword to do both, but he needed a potion of strength to balance out his otherwise weak body (but it proves your point)), Vampire Counts, most Chaos Champions of Tzeentch, Doomfire Warlocks (8e DE unit), Sisters of the Thorn (8e WE unit).
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Karanthir
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Not sure about mechanics, but Grey Wizards seem to be quite fond of using swords as more than just symbolic weapons. And of course, there's always the Bright Magic spell Flaming Sword of Rhuin.
CapnZapp
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Thank you. Sounds like there is some basis for cautious optimism!

I will have to let my GM check out these characters and decide for himself...
CapnZapp
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Jadrax wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:11 pm
In second edition WFRP Dart (and indeed Fire Ball) are half actions so can be combined with a Standard Attack.
Sure. And I realize you could call it nitpicking to make an issue out of not being satisfied by being able to attack once and cast one spell as opposed to being able to attack several times, just replacing one attack with a bolt.

But still, I think the look and feel is different. The character you're talking about is wizard first, swordsman second. The fireball is a relatively mighty attack while the swing with the sword isn't (from a wizard at least).

The character idea I have in mind is swordsman first, and wizard only second. And then more innate sorcerer than bookish wizard at that!

His main claim to respect is his skill with his sword. His use of magic is more supplemental (I'm thinking the "bolt" is more Dart than Fireball; maybe using Magic Armor instead of physical armor, and so on)

The main "obstacle" ruleswise that I have identified (at least in 2nd Edition) are:
- based on a warrior-ish career, not a wizardy one - he's tough and athletic, not wise and literate
- when and if I gain Attacks 3 I want to be able to to do two sword swings and one bolt (with the other hand)
- magic normally always carries a risk of rolling doubles (Tzeentch' Curse). It becomes untenable to bolt every single combat round under that premise

The goal here is to create a "magical warrior" that dabbles in magic just enough to justify some magical ability and knowledge. Not enough to be the bookish grimoire-reader but maybe enough to sense magical auras, use dispelling, and identify artifacts and such...
Jadrax
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Have you looked at the Elf Ranger (Mage subtype) from Warhammer Quest?
RancidWalrus
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Archaon?

Can't deny his martial prowess, and he looses the odd fireball too.

But I think Loremasters of Hoeth are the better answer!
CapnZapp
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RancidWalrus wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:56 am
But I think Loremasters of Hoeth are the better answer!
Sorry, that doesn't sound at all like the character concept I've described in the thread...
CapnZapp
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How impossible would a "gish" character be in the context of Warhammer FRP? Ideally, a human fighter that can pick up a smidgen of magical ability on the side.

The ability to exchange a sword swipe for a bolt of fire, say, isn't meant to be a power upgrade. Having it be short range and do no more damage than his sword would be entirely acceptable.

But it would offer me a welcome change to the "classic" wizardly character options. A charismatic folk hero type character, yet one with some innate magical ability, all while avoiding the "stuck in a tower reading dusty old books" stereotype. :)

If I can wish for anything, a character manifesting magic using Fellowship (much like 4E Priests), to help with the MAD; a character that can forego regular armor for magical one, so he can fight shirtless with a winning smile on his lips! 8-)
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Orin J.
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CapnZapp wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:31 am
But it would offer me a welcome change to the "classic" wizardly character options. A charismatic folk hero type character, yet one with some innate magical ability, all while avoiding the "stuck in a tower reading dusty old books" stereotype. :)
uhhhh, hate to point this out, but "charismatic folk hero" and "magical ability" are sorta mutually exclusive in the eyes of the populace of warhammer. honestly it sounds like you want a warrior type with a weapon that blasts people with magic, like the old computer game character morgan bernhardt. the only character that remotely fits your bill is honestly malekith the witch king and he's using dark magic because chaos/dark magic's really the only way to avoid the "reading dusty old books" angle of spellcraft.....
RancidWalrus
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CapnZapp wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:26 am
Sorry, that doesn't sound at all like the character concept I've described in the thread...
my bad
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Hyarion
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How does the TW:W description of a Loremaster deviate from the concept proposed in this thread?
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CapnZapp
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Hyarion wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:26 am
How does the TW:W description of a Loremaster deviate from the concept proposed in this thread?
Okay, let's see:
- seems much more appropriate for WFB than WFRP
- it's an elite concept, not something a WFRP character can realistically strive for. Remember, the character will be adventuring alongside the usual Agitators, Ratcatchers, Pitfighters, and Herbalists you'd find in any other WFRP party
- it's right in the name, a "loremaster". That's a wizard, an intellectual, a scholar - or, in WFRP terms, an Academic, not a Warrior
- having "a faultless grasp of the principles of magical lore" with "an intellect capable of mastering an entire path" doesn't sound like a Fighter with magic on the side
CapnZapp
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I'm looking for a Warrior type character who switches out fightery talents for innate magical ones.

And that these magical talents are low key, in line with what a sword, arrow, shield or chain mail do for you. They aren't high level spells that obliterate regiments. The reason isn't primarily because that would make the character overpowered (though that is a good reason). The primary reason is instead because that would overshadow the character's sword play and fighting prowess! I don't want there to be a reason NOT to fight with a weapon; I don't want there to be a reason to cast spells like a regular Wizard.

I want the character to be a fighter that just happens to use magic to help him do just that. :)

I envision a character who in his second career can get Attacks 2.
Once a round he firebolts for damage on par with a bow and arrow. The range can be short, that's fine. It's a reskinned ranged attack whose main value lies in reinforcing his magical nature. Remaining attacks (Attacks 2, 3 etc) are made with a sword or other weapon.

Other magical manifestations might include aethyric armor so he can skip regular armor, again mostly for appearances. Maybe a smattering of Petty Spells. He's got some sort of magical sense so he can function as the group's detector of magic items. He might have the Superstition skill, but he's no book-trained Wizard. He might even have some ability to Dispel, but that's not essential.

All his other experience goes toward being a charismatic fighter.

(Maybe that concept is entirely foreign to the Old World. I don't know - that's why I'm asking you guys! :) )
Jadrax
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As well as the Elf Ranger I mentioned above, another idea (although you would need to rework it a lot i suspect) is they way Defenders of the Forest at Liber Fanatica handled Wardancers, where they changed to Dances to spells.

This is all pretty weak in terms of suggestions but I am really struggling to think of anything better.
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