The Words of the Law

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Sword of Solkan
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Some Law based fluff from my Warhammer campaign:

‘His eyes were opened. And for the first time he saw the World, which he had taken in his blindness for a rich and noble kingdom, to be naught but a Vale of Shadows, ephemeral and fleeting. And he saw the people who dwelt there, as they fumbled in the darkness. And how they were the prey of dæmons which took them as their meat and did make sport of them. And how the people had no more shame than beasts, but were slaves unto the foulest passions and depravities.

So the Man took up his sword, and he warred mightily against the dæmons. Yet for every fiend he slew, he was assailed by ten more, just as loathsome. And the people would not turn from their wickedness, for all that it gave strength to the fiends that consumed them, for they knew nothing else.

And the Man cried aloud to the the Heavens in despair, for his works availed him nothing, and the Law made answer in the voice of an Angel. “Take heart, for ye have fought a good fight. It is right and proper that ye should strive against the Evil Ones, for that is the first step towards salvation. Fear not. In the allotted time they shall be brought low, and their fall shall be great. For a Fire is coming, a great Fire, and all shall be made clean. And the mountains shall melt away like candle wax, and all their Kingdoms burn away to ash.”

And the Man was greatly afraid, and saith “Then assuredly we shall all be burned up and perish.”

And the Angel spake a second time, and saith “Weep not for this World, for it is an evil place, fallen unto Corruption and to Chaos. If ye be adjudged Pure and Righteous then then there is a better place that awaits you, where the Evil Ones shall not enter.”

And the Man looked beyond, and he saw a great and glorious Realm of Light. Where he might live for all time, and never grow old, and death and hunger and sickness and want might never touch him.

And the Man lamented and cried aloud, for he saw that all the entryways were sealed fast, and none might enter.

And the Angel spake a third and final time, and saith, “Assuredly ye must seek the Keys, for all whose eyes are not opened unto the Light shall be given unto the Pyre.” And the Man saw these things and rejoiced, for the higher mysteries were known unto him.’

These are the Words of the Law. Give thanks unto the Law, for it shall deliver us from Chaos.
Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.
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Chuck
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I've often wondered what WFRP would be like if they focused as much on Gods of Law as the Ruinous Powers of Chaos.
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skerrigan
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25% less tentacly. 25% more geometrically crystally.

The law gods are an interesting concept. In 2e onwards they could actually be aspects of Chaos since Law was erased from the cosmology largely.
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Karanthir
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This is great!

I wonder if a good way to incorporate Law Gods into the post-WFRP1 setting would be to have the PCs investigating what they assume is going to be a Chaos Cult only to discover that it's quite the opposite. A cult dedicated to upholding Law and Order at any cost! Bonus points for the cultists of a Law God being members of an illegal cult.

Actually, I'd be shocked if someone hasn't already written this scenario/campaign...
Clint
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What's the difference between in current gods and the law gods? Verena seems to be the God of Laws, Justice and wisdom, and the other gods each represent something "good".
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skerrigan
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Verena is the god of justice - i.e. in D&D terms Lawful Good. Law ruled by temperance and compassion where the spirit of the law is very much as important as the letter of the law.

Solkan is a god of law and vengeance, a very D&D Lawful Neutral type on steroids. A retributive, fire and brimstone god the letter of the law is paramount, and there is no room for compassion in exacting the law.

So it's the difference between Sherlock Holmes and Judge Dredd.
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totsuzenheni
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Clint wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:57 am
What's the difference between in current gods and the law gods? Verena seems to be the God of Laws, Justice and wisdom, and the other gods each represent something "good".
'Law' in WFRP 1st edition was an opposite to 'Chaos'. In the same way that the gods of Chaos are for disorder and change for it's own sake and because it is their nature, the gods of Law were for order and stasis for it's own sake and because it is their nature. Gods of Law are not necessarily good any more than gods of Chaos are necessarily bad ( in WFRP 1st edition ). In the extreme the god of Law 'Alluminas' was an unchanging stream of light that rendered immobile and unchanging anything that it shone upon. ( Alluminas is effectively an opposite to Tzeentch. ) Verena ( if she is not a god of Law, which she wasn't in WFRP 1st edition ) is a 'Neutral' god ( in so far as there is such a thing in WFRP ) and so i would imagine is for laws, justice and wisdom because of their good outcomes and not ( so much ) for their own sake.

'Law', 'Good', 'Neutral', 'Evil' and 'Chaos' were all 'alignments' in WFRP 1st edition. I don't know that anyone ever used them very much except for the Law vs. Chaos divide, and even then, as is evident, it tended to be just Chaos vs. The World ©.
Clint
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Interesting. And I guess there are reasons that I have never encountered the Law gods before anywhere. They doesn't seem to fit thematically in the Warhammer universe very well
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totsuzenheni
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Clint wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:38 am
Interesting. And I guess there are reasons that I have never encountered the Law gods before anywhere. They don't seem to fit thematically in the Warhammer universe very well.
They do and they don't, depending on which version of the Warhammer universe you are referring to. The most likely reason you've never encountered them before is because they were left out of the canon fairly early on. After their appearance in WFRP 1st edition and Advanced HeroQuest they disappeared, at least as far as i know. Gideon has written about their history on his Awesome Lies blog, here: https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... ncing-act/ .
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skerrigan
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I disagree the Law gods are dull. I had an adventure 75% finished about an undead (or rather Law equivalent of undead) follower of Alluminas going round kidnapping and placing innocents in his stasis chamber to preserve their innocence for all eternity. And the grass around his lair was brittle like glass. Need to finish it sometime.

Canonically Solkan still exists and is worshipped in Tilea and to a lesser extent Marienburg. Whether he was ever worshipped in the Empire is a good question as 2e onwards Sigmar seems to have stolen his shtick as God of asshole witch hunters.
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totsuzenheni
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skerrigan wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:37 am
Canonically Solkan still exists and is worshipped in Tilea and to a lesser extent Marienburg. Whether he was ever worshipped in the Empire is a good question as 2e onwards Sigmar seems to have stolen his shtick as God of asshole witch hunters.
That could be an interesting in-game bit of politics. Who hunts the witch hunters?
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TheWFRPCompanion
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I was actually thinking only yesterday that I'd like to adapt the Carnal Sins quest from the Witcher 3: Wild Hunt into WFRP, but when thinking about it I couldn't really think of such a violently puritanical god that could motivate the crime. Assuming anyone reading further has had a look at this, or is familiar from playing the game (SPOILERS, obv):

https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/Carnal_Sins

If you don't know the background, the Church of the Eternal Fire in the Witcher setting is inspired by the Teutonic Knights and the Northern Crusades into Slavic, Pagan Europe. The quest in question (he he) would certainly need to be buffed up and have a wider array of red herrings for players to bump into so they don't catch on to the real killer quite so quickly. When a videogame presents a mystery it can easily deflect your attention away from certain details by simply lacking the dialogue options to question it, but in an RPG it would have to be more robust. Some rough thoughts:

*In the run up have the Concerned Citizen sermons pop up in an earlier session, and the make the person attacked if possible be a friend of the players.

* Have the woodcarving Dwarf murder his brother, and attempt to copycat the killer but miss out on elements such as the symbolism of the killings. Another killing on top perhaps.

* Expand on the importance of time in the investigation. The more they investigate and learn clues the more likely another murder happens and they can't catch the killer, if they're more rushed they have a better chance but can't be 100% sure. The game sort of does this with how killing Nathaniel without talking results in the killer getting away. Happened to me first time and I was pissed.

If I go further down this path then I'll definitely come back to this thread and update you all, though I suppose I should ask beforehand if Solkan would be a good fit for it? My own party is Watchmen, so it's easy enough to motivate them without a Priscilla stand-in getting attacked. It might actually be a really interesting thing to do, I'm running it in post Storm of Chaos Middenheim so it might be a fitting time for the Gods of Law to try making a come back.
Karanthir
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skerrigan wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:37 am
Canonically Solkan still exists and is worshipped in Tilea and to a lesser extent Marienburg. Whether he was ever worshipped in the Empire is a good question as 2e onwards Sigmar seems to have stolen his shtick as God of asshole witch hunters.
Do you have any references for that? I wasn't aware of anything official about Solkan post-WFRP1.
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skerrigan
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He pops up in the start of the Archaon Novel - the prophecies about the Everchosen were written in a Tilean monastery worshipping Solkan. And he's mentioned a fair bit in Black Library's stuff.
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Karanthir
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Ah, that explains my ignorance. Thanks.
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skerrigan
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It's really just tiny appearances post-WFRP1e.
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TheWFRPCompanion
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Something I thought worth giving a link, over on the subreddit someone has made a post asking for some feedback and ideas on a Cult of Solkan campaign they're doing.
If your favorite color is grey, you’re currently considering piracy in Luccini, and constantly worrying about getting “vendetta’d”, then this post isn’t for you!

Hi y’all, first time posting on this sub, and I could use some help creating memorable villains for my players.

In my 4e game set in Tilea, my players have begun uncovering the existence of an ancient Cult of Solkan. Though this is merely the beginning of a long and bloody investigation, I thought I’d go ahead and stat out some of the members most likely to “silence” the party.

THE INSPIRATION: The four cardinal virtues: Courage, Wisdom, Temperance, and Justice. A four-pointed compass rose theme seemed like a fitting juxtaposition to the eight-pointed star of Chaos. Also, let’s be honest: the movie Se7en.

THE FLUFF: The Four Virtues are the strong-arm of the Cult of Solkan in the Tilea region. These four men (or women, or something more sinister) have proven their absolute loyalty to the Cult, and their zeal has allowed them to rise through the ranks to the point where they can be considered a living embodiment of the Strictures of Solkan. Though they give up their name and identity, they are seemingly blessed with holy powers related to the Virtue they embody.

My question for you all is: if you were creating such a group, how would you have each Virtue represent their namesake? I’d prefer the members to be human, as the Cult of Solkan doesn’t take super well to the elder races, but this is not a hard requirement. Some Virtues seem easy: Courage as your stereotypical prideful paladin-type, Wisdom as a mage or priest of some sort, but others are harder to envision, like Temperance.

I can give more information upon request. Thanks for any and all considerations.
You can find the post here if you're interested.
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Sword of Solkan
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TheWFRPCompanion wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:29 am
Something I thought worth giving a link, over on the subreddit someone has made a post asking for some feedback and ideas on a Cult of Solkan campaign they're doing.
If your favorite color is grey, you’re currently considering piracy in Luccini, and constantly worrying about getting “vendetta’d”, then this post isn’t for you!

Hi y’all, first time posting on this sub, and I could use some help creating memorable villains for my players.

In my 4e game set in Tilea, my players have begun uncovering the existence of an ancient Cult of Solkan. Though this is merely the beginning of a long and bloody investigation, I thought I’d go ahead and stat out some of the members most likely to “silence” the party.

THE INSPIRATION: The four cardinal virtues: Courage, Wisdom, Temperance, and Justice. A four-pointed compass rose theme seemed like a fitting juxtaposition to the eight-pointed star of Chaos. Also, let’s be honest: the movie Se7en.

THE FLUFF: The Four Virtues are the strong-arm of the Cult of Solkan in the Tilea region. These four men (or women, or something more sinister) have proven their absolute loyalty to the Cult, and their zeal has allowed them to rise through the ranks to the point where they can be considered a living embodiment of the Strictures of Solkan. Though they give up their name and identity, they are seemingly blessed with holy powers related to the Virtue they embody.

My question for you all is: if you were creating such a group, how would you have each Virtue represent their namesake? I’d prefer the members to be human, as the Cult of Solkan doesn’t take super well to the elder races, but this is not a hard requirement. Some Virtues seem easy: Courage as your stereotypical prideful paladin-type, Wisdom as a mage or priest of some sort, but others are harder to envision, like Temperance.

I can give more information upon request. Thanks for any and all considerations.
You can find the post here if you're interested.
That’s an interesting idea, and I’d definitely be interested in hearing more about it. Definitely some mileage to be had from a God of Vengeance in a society as prone to vendettas as Tilea.

Unfortunately the link doesn’t work from my phone - would you mind posting it directly?
Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.
Paco
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Sword of Solkan wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:46 pm
Unfortunately the link doesn’t work from my phone - would you mind posting it directly?
Try this
https://www.reddit.com/r/warhammerfanta ... tist_help/
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Sword of Solkan
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Paco wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:44 pm
Sword of Solkan wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:46 pm
Unfortunately the link doesn’t work from my phone - would you mind posting it directly?
Try this
https://www.reddit.com/r/warhammerfanta ... tist_help/
Cheers!
Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.
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