Imperial Calendar

For general discussions about WFRP
Post Reply
Capitaneus Fractus
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 am

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:42 am

Hi,

My feeling on the Warhammer calendar, as it was designed for the Enemy Within campaign and kept for latter publications, is that it quite unrealistic that an educated people would have such a baroque calendar to measure time in a world where years stand for exactly four seasons of one hundred days each and where mannslieber cycles are of twenty-five days. Such a strong regularity of the Sun and of Mannslieb would have obviously commanded to easily reach a perfect lunisolar calendar, with months allowing to keep tracks of mannslieber cycles and of seasons...

So I've decided to correct it with a more logical one, which happen to be perpetual, hence being used to any imperial year:
Calendrier perpétuel.png

The year is divided into four seasons (solar cycles). The new year start the day of the last full mannslieb before the first day of spring (Hexenstag).

Seasons are divided into four months (mannslieber cycle). The new month start the day of a full mannslieb and end the day before the next full mannslieb.

Months are divided into the kalendary day and three eight-days nundines:
-The day of full mannslieb are called kalends and aren't really part of the nundines;
-The first nundine start the day after the kalends;
-The second nundine start at the waning crescent of mannslieb;
-The third and last nundine start the day after the waxinig crescent of mannslieb;

Months are also divided into four periods who, each, lead to a major celebration of the month. The first two periods are always mannslieber periods:
-the six day week of Nones, up to the last quarter of mannslieb;
-the sennight of Ides, up to the new mannslieb.

The two last are either solar or mannslieber periods, depending in the kind of month:
-In ordinary months (1/2), the third period is a six-day week, up to the first quarter of mannslieb, and the fourth period is a six-day week, up to the day before the kalends of full mannslieb of the next month;
-In season transition months (1/4), the third period is a four-day week, up to the first day of the new season, and the fourth period is a nundine up to the day before the kalends of full mannslieb of the next month;
-In equinoctial and solstial months (1/4), the third period is a three-day week, up to the day of equinox or solstice, and the fourth period is a nine-day week up to the day before the kalends of full mannslieb of the next month.

Each month, hence, have four major days from which previous days are counted inclusively forward to it.

So, what are your thoughts... How can it be enhanced? Is there some errors that should be corrected? Is the German correct? What could be the third events of the 4th, 8th and 16th months?

Zoodiacal signs dates are from Liber Fanatica. Is there more "official" sources?

HERE IS A TABLE FOR DATE CONVERSION
From TEW's mystical calendar to my lunisolar one (Work for every year)

Code: Select all

1       Hexenstag           |   Hexenstag (Hexensnacht : Old Faith, Liadriel, Mórr)
2       1st Nachexen        |   Wellentag, the 6th day before the Nones of Nachexen (New Year's Benediction: Véréna)
7       6 Nachexen          |   Konistag, Nonen des Nachexen
14      13 Nachexen         |   Bezahltag, Iden des Nachexen
18      17 Nachexen         |   Wellentag, Letzintag (1st Spring day)
26      25 Nachexen         |   Kalenden des Hornung
32      31 Nachexen         |   Konistag, Nonen des Hornung
33      32 Nachexen         |   Angestag, the 7th day before the Ides of Hornung
34      1st Jahrdrung       |   Festag, the 6th day before the Ides of Hornung
39      6 Jahrdrung         |   Bezahltag, Iden des Hornung
46      13 Jahrdrung        |   Marktag, Ewigewiederkunftstag (Neap-tide: Mannan)
57      24 Jahrdrung        |   Konistag, Nonen des Jahrdrung (Start of The Enemy Within campaign)
64      31 Jahrdrung        |   Bezahltag, Iden des Jahrdrung
66      33 Jahrdrung        |   Angestag, Vormitterfruhl
67      Mitterfruhl         |   Festag, Mitterfruhl (Spring Equinox: Manann, Taal, Ulric, Old Faith, Rhya)
68      1st Pflugzeit       |   Wellentag, the 9th day before the Kalends of Pflugzeit
75      8 Pflugzeit         |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Pflugzeit
76      9 Pflugzeit         |   Kalenden des Pflugzeit
82      15 Pflugzeit        |   Konistag, Nonen des Pflugzeit
89      22 Pflugzeit        |   Bezahltag, Iden des Pflugzeit
96      29 Pflugzeit        |   Marktag, [first quarter of mannslieb] (Neap-tide: Mannan)
100     33 Pflugzeit        |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Sigmarzeit (First Swallow: Grugni)
101     1st Sigmarzeit      |   Kalenden des Sigmarzeit
107     7 Sigmarzeit        |   Konistag, Nonen des Sigmarzeit
114     14 Sigmarzeit       |   Bezahltag, Iden des Sigmarzeit
118     18 Sigmarzeit       |   Wellentag, Sommertag (1st Summer day: Sigmar)
125     25 Sigmarzeit       |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Wonnemanoth
126     26 Sigmarzeit       |   Kalenden des Wonnemanoth
132     32 Sigmarzeit       |   Konistag, Nonen des Wonnemanoth
133     33 Sigmarzeit       |   Angestag, the 7th day before the Ides of Wonnemanoth
134     1st Sommerzeit      |   Festag, the 6th day before the Ides of Wonnemanoth
139     6 Sommerzeit        |   Bezahltag, Iden des Wonnemanoth
---     10 Sommerzeit       |   [The Madness Day of Ranald is now set at Marktag, Wahnsinnstag]
146     13 Sommerzeit       |   Marktag, Wahnsinnstag (Ranald, Mannan)
150     17 Sommerzeit       |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Sommerzeit
151     18 Sommerzeit       |   Kalenden des Sommerzeit
157     24 Sommerzeit       |   Konistag, Nonen des Sommerzeit
164     31 Sommerzeit       |   Bezahltag, Iden des Sommerzeit
166     33 Sommerzeit       |   Angestag, Vorsonnstille
167     Sonnstille          |   Festag, Sonnstille (Solstice of Summer : Old Faith, Taal, Rhya)
168     1st Vorgeheim       |   Wellentag, the 9th day before the Kalends of Vorgeheim
175     8 Vorgeheim         |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Vorgeheim
176     9 Vorgeheim         |   Kalenden des Vorgeheim
182     15 Vorgeheim        |   Konistag, Nonen des Vorgeheim
189     22 Vorgeheim        |   Bezahltag, Iden des Vorgeheim
196     29 Vorgeheim        |   Marktag, [first quarter of mannslieb] (Neap-tide: Mannan)
200     33 Vorgeheim        |   Festag, Vorgeheimnistag (Day of the Saga : Grugni)
201     Geheimnistag        |   Geheimnistag (Geheimnisnacht : Old Faith, Liadriel, Mórr)
202     1st Nachgeheim      |   Wellentag, the 6th day before the Nones of Nachgeheim
207     6 Nachgeheim        |   Konistag, Nonen des Nachgeheim
214     13 Nachgeheim       |   Bezahltag, Iden des Nachgeheim
218     17 Nachgeheim       |   Wellentag, Herbistag (1st Automne day)
225     24 Nachgeheim       |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Aranmanoth
226     25 Nachgeheim       |   Kalenden des Aranmanoth
232     31 Nachgeheim       |   Konistag, Nonen des Aranmanoth
233     32 Nachgeheim       |   Angestag, the 7th day before the Ides of Aranmanoth (First day of the Pie Week: Esméralda)
234     1st Erntezeit       |   Festag, the 6th day before the Ides of Aranmanoth
---     1-8 Erntezeit       |   [The Pie Week is now set the sennight of the Ides of Aranmanoth]
239     6 Erntezeit         |   Bezahltag, Iden des Aranmanoth (Last day of the Pie Week: Esméralda)
246     13 Erntezeit        |   Marktag, Idisibluozan (Neap-tide: Mannan)
250     17 Erntezeit        |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Erntezeit
251     18 Erntezeit        |   Kalenden des Erntezeit
257     24 Erntezeit        |   Konistag, Nonen des Erntezeit
264     31 Erntezeit        |   Bezahltag, Iden des Erntezeit
266     33 Erntezeit        |   Angestag, Vormitterherbst
267     Mitterherbst        |   Festag, Mitterherbst (Equinoxe of Automne : Ulric, Old Faith, Taal, Mannan, Rhya)
268     1st Brauzeit        |   Wellentag, the 9th day before the Ides of Brauzeit
276     9 Brauzeit          |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Brauzeit
277     10 Brauzeit         |   Kalenden des Brauzeit
282     15 Brauzeit         |   Konistag, Nonen des Brauzeit
289     22 Brauzeit         |   Bezahltag, Iden des Brauzeit
297     30 Brauzeit         |   Marktag, Albibluozan (Neap-tide: Mannan)
300     33 Brauzeit         |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Kaldezeit (Second Pint: Grugni)
301     1st Kaldezeit       |   Kalenden des Kaldezeit
307     7 Kaldezeit         |   Konistag, Nonen des Kaldezeit
314     14 Kaldezeit        |   Bezahltag, Iden des Kaldezeit
318     18 Kaldezeit        |   Wellentag, Wintartag (1st Winter day)
325     25 Kaldezeit        |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Taalsdämmerung
326     26 Kaldezeit        |   Kalenden des Taalsdämmerung
332     32 Kaldezeit        |   Konistag, Nonen des Taalsdämmerung
333     33 Kaldezeit        |   Angestag, the 7th day before the Ides of Taalsdämmerung
334     1st Ulriczeit       |   Festag, the 6th day before the Ides of Taalsdämmerung
339     6 Ulriczeit         |   Bezahltag, Iden des Taalsdämmerung
346     13 Ulriczeit        |   Marktag, Ersterhalbmond von Ulric (Neap-tide: Mannan)
350     17 Ulriczeit        |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Ulriczeit
351     18 Ulriczeit        |   Kalenden des Ulriczeit
257     24 Ulriczeit        |   Konistag, Nonen des Ulriczeit
364     31 Ulriczeit        |   Bezahltag, Iden des Ulriczeit
366     33 Ulriczeit        |   Angestag, Vormondstille
367     Mondstille          |   Festag, Mondstille (Solstice of Winter: Ulric, Old Faith, Taal, Rhya)
368     1st Vorhexen        |   Wellentag, the 9th day before the Kalends of Vorhexen
375     8 Vorhexen          |   Festag, Vorkalenden des Vorhexen
376     9 Vorhexen          |   Kalenden des Vorhexen
382     15 Vorhexen         |   Konistag, Nonen des Vorhexen
389     22 Vorhexen         |   Bezahltag, Iden des Vorhexen
396     29 Vorhexen         |   Marktag, [first quarter of mannslieb] (Neap-tide: Mannan)
400     33 Vorhexen         |   Festag, Vorhexenstag (Bottom of the Barrel: Grugni)
Veniam, Duelli Malleum, phantasticum ludum personae uidebo, in fera terra periculosorum aduenturorum ludebam.
User avatar
Orin J.
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:03 am

i honestly always ignored the imperial calendar, as i assumed very few people were literate enough to track these things in a chart as opposed to "Feeling" the right time for harvests and such and the listed calendar was the domain of out of touch academics that stupidly think "well, we can just make this nice and orderly making everything a nice clean factor of ten!"

i mean, the empire having a lot of lunatics in charge of their sciences that don't care about reason is kind of a recurring thing.

that said, it looks like good work! i'm sure someone will get good use out of this. i personally tend to play dates more by the seat of my pants though, since my usual gaming group was always a bunch of wandering murderhobos.
User avatar
Hyarion
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:56 am

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:54 am

Wait, there are gaming groups that *aren't* wandering murderhobos?
I hold the glaive of Law against the Earth.
Capitaneus Fractus
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 am

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:09 am

Have someone an idea (or some sources) on how could be determined random lunations of Morrsliebe and eclipses of the Sun, of Mannsliebe and of Morrsliebe?
Veniam, Duelli Malleum, phantasticum ludum personae uidebo, in fera terra periculosorum aduenturorum ludebam.
User avatar
Orin J.
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:45 am

Capitaneus Fractus wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:09 am
Have someone an idea (or some sources) on how could be determined random lunations of Morrsliebe and eclipses of the Sun, of Mannsliebe and of Morrsliebe?
well, we have the seasonal calendar and the rough amount of hours in the day, so someone with astronomy experience would be able to put together the calculations to turn those into the rotations of mannslieb around the planet. you might be able to do it yourself with a few weeks research at the library! once you have that it's more a matter of figuring out the distance of the moon and how the sun works....there might be a partial lunar calender somewhere in the fluff of some adventure or a bit about magic, you should check around in your books for useful tidbits you might have overlooked.

morrslieb is a bit tougher. it's erratic and can change wildly based on lots of tiny factors- because it's really just GMs choice. if you're the GM, just do what serves your purposes for story and drama at the moment. if you aren't the GM....er, butter them up maybe?
Knight of the Lady
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:04 am

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:37 pm

Capitaneus Fractus wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:09 am
Have someone an idea (or some sources) on how could be determined random lunations of Morrsliebe and eclipses of the Sun, of Mannsliebe and of Morrsliebe?
I can't help you with lunar and solar stuff, but I can say that I wrote up the following little things for Morrslieb, about one and half year ago for 2nd edition. And I believe that the Tome of Corruption takes up the subject of Morrslieb and its appearence in a discussion.

Morrslieb

After each appearance of Morrslieb roll 2d10 to see how many nights until the next appearance.

There are five phases for Morrslieb (Full moon, Gibbeous moon, Half moon, Crescent moon and New Moon). Due to the irregular and chaos nature of the Morrslieb roll 1d10 to see which phase Morslieb comes out in.

1-Full Moon
2-3-Gibbeous Moon
4-5Half Moon
6-7 Crescent Moon
8-10 New Moon
Capitaneus Fractus
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 am

Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:43 pm

Thank you for this suggestion.
Is Mórrslieb erratic enough to be able to be new moon one day, full moon th day after and half moon the day that follow? Can it go reverse?
Before you shared your contribution, I thought about this system of weights:

1. roll 1d10 for each semester to get the number of Mórrslieb's lunations (so, there is between 2 and 20 Mórrslieb's lunations in a year).
2. for each lunation, roll 1d10 and wight results together to get the percentage of days each lunation got.
3. Report this percentage to the 200 days of the semester.
4. For each lunation, roll 8d10, under the same principle, to get the weight, hence the number of days, of each phase of Mórrslieb: The 1st phase is from full to waning gibbous; the 2nd is from waning gibbous to last quarter; the 3rd is from last quarter to waning crescent; the 4th is from waning crescent to new mórrslieb; the 5th is from new mórrslieb to waxing crescent; the 6th is from waxing crescent to first quarter; the 7th is from first quarter to waxing gibbous and the 8th is from waxing gibbous to full mórrslieb...

Example: If I roll "4" to get the number of Mórrslieb's lunations in the semester, there will be four of them between Hexenstag and Geheimnistag.
Then, I weight them. I roll "2", "3", "5" and "9". Its sum is 19. So the first lunation, "2" is about 10.53% of 19; the second one, "3" is about 15.79% of 19; the third, "5" is about 26.32% of 19 and the last, "9" is about 47.37% of 19. Reported to the 200 days of the semester: the first lunation will last 21 days; the second 31 days; the third 53 days and the fourth 95 days.

To get the phases of each lunation, I roll again 8d10 and weight results as previously. I roll "5", "5", "5", "5", "5", "6", "1" and "3", which mean that the five first phases will last three days each; the sixth four; the seventh one and the last two; the other lunations are also tested...

Following this, one end to got his calendar...

If the scenario or the dramatic interest command that something happen differently some day, then, it happen differently... When there is no specific necessity to have arbitrary lunation rather than random lunation or when the game master prefers to please the results of uncertainty, then he just have to follow the random table he did prepared in advance.

What do you think about it? It sure isn't something to test during a game but rather before a game, when it is deemed important by the game master.
Veniam, Duelli Malleum, phantasticum ludum personae uidebo, in fera terra periculosorum aduenturorum ludebam.
User avatar
Orin J.
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:02 pm

Capitaneus Fractus wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:43 pm
Thank you for this suggestion.
Is Mórrslieb erratic enough to be able to be new moon one day, full moon th day after and half moon the day that follow? Can it go reverse?
Yes. It's apparently possible (and not uncommon) for it to simply not show up some nights, or to stay unmoving in the sky for nights on end. It is a big wad of chaos stuff, after all. expecting it to act natural would be silly!
Knight of the Lady
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:04 am

Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:27 am

Orin J. wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:02 pm
Capitaneus Fractus wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:43 pm
Thank you for this suggestion.
Is Mórrslieb erratic enough to be able to be new moon one day, full moon th day after and half moon the day that follow? Can it go reverse?
Yes. It's apparently possible (and not uncommon) for it to simply not show up some nights, or to stay unmoving in the sky for nights on end. It is a big wad of chaos stuff, after all. expecting it to act natural would be silly!
I agree pretty much with this. And personally I like to cut down on the math. :P
Capitaneus Fractus
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 am

Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:29 am

In The Enemy Within and in some other publications, it is said that at Hexenstag and Geheimnistag, the first day of each semester of the year, Mórrslieb always appears full.
In Shadows over Bögenhafen, it is said that Mórrslieb appears to be close to be full (and eventually happen to be full), which is a bit surprising -it is said- because in that part of the year, it is more common to see its last crescent (If I'm recalling correctly... we should check the exact quote...)

It suggest, for me, that albeit being erratic, apparitions aren't "that" random... It do not act naturally, but it do not tend to always randomly teleport neither. I understand it as there is some predictability on which no-one can however surely rely one considering the erratic nature of that moon lead it to not follow a regular course.
Veniam, Duelli Malleum, phantasticum ludum personae uidebo, in fera terra periculosorum aduenturorum ludebam.
Post Reply