Knight of the Lady
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Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:38 am

I made this thread to have a as a kind of common thread to essentially throw up links to 4th edition careers that I've done and so share with the community for a world and setting that I really enjoy and is attached to. It's intended to essentially be a kind of compressor so that instead of throwing up a new thread now and then when I've got one or a few careers ready, I'll rather update this one and keep it all in one thread.

First out are the "Godson" and the "Petty Noble".

The Godson is delusioned individual or charlatan who claims to have divine patrimony and most often be found in areas where the control from organized priesthoods are lax, such as in Bretonnia among the peasants.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xLyjDN ... sp=sharing

The Petty Noble is a chance to, as intended, play a noble character who have got the noble name but precious little else and must fight and struggle for every ounch of recognition and material wealth that she would feel she was entitled to. And I imagine a way to get a noble character without giving it loads and loads of money as I believe its cautioned against in the 4th edition core.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/148gWtp ... sp=sharing

Orin J.
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:02 pm

i think bretonnia is actually a lot harder for cults of personality to get by in- mostly in that questing and grail knights tend to rove around looking for anything suspect that might impose on the grace the lady provides by way of nobles tending to their villages hoping to find evil to thwart. seems more a thing for the rural parts of the empire to get into, what with the priests not bothering to go out to places where there's no glory to be hand.

the poor nobles just reminds me that they literally denied that option for nobles in the core book with their stupid social tiers crap.

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skerrigan
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:50 am

Bretonnian characters IMHO should be two races. Bretonnian Lowborn and Bretonnian Highborn. That's because racially they should get different starting skills. Peasants and nobles in Bretonnia live completely different lives and the opportunity for literacy or heraldry study is universal to all nobles.

Then careers like the ones above, some of which would be highborn only (noble or knight errant for example), others lowborn only (like Wallwarden).
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Knight of the Lady
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:37 am

Orin J. wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:02 pm
i think bretonnia is actually a lot harder for cults of personality to get by in- mostly in that questing and grail knights tend to rove around looking for anything suspect that might impose on the grace the lady provides by way of nobles tending to their villages hoping to find evil to thwart. seems more a thing for the rural parts of the empire to get into, what with the priests not bothering to go out to places where there's no glory to be hand.

the poor nobles just reminds me that they literally denied that option for nobles in the core book with their stupid social tiers crap.
Well, I think that you are to both mistaken and too kind towards the Bretonnian nobility in regards to how much they actually do manage their villages.

The first part is that the Lady of the Lake really isn't a goddess of the peasants outside of Bastonne and the only god of which peasants are involved with, with an organized priesthood in Bretonnia to my knowledge is Shallya. And the peasants don't seem to worship the Lady as much as fear incurring the wrath of her noble worshippers. Therefor I think that a godson would need to do something out of the ordinary in order to attract the attention of a grail or questing knight.

Then in regards to the nobles lording over the villages, its not a case that these nobles actually care much for what the villages are doing, as long as it don't threaten or impact the political and economic dominance of the nobles, and given the less then enlightened rule and often ham-fisted response of the nobles to any problem in the villages there's very little incentive for the villagers to tell the nobles of any problem they might have where the best solution might not be to ride out, destroy the problem, burn the village and hang a quarter of the villagers, before returning to the castle and demand twice the tax from now on from that village.

In regards to social tiers I love the inclusion of this into the system.
skerrigan wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:50 am
Bretonnian characters IMHO should be two races. Bretonnian Lowborn and Bretonnian Highborn. That's because racially they should get different starting skills. Peasants and nobles in Bretonnia live completely different lives and the opportunity for literacy or heraldry study is universal to all nobles.

Then careers like the ones above, some of which would be highborn only (noble or knight errant for example), others lowborn only (like Wallwarden).
I agree with the reasoning behind creating two Bretonnian races would make sense, although in hoestly shouldn't there be like 28 races? One commoner and one noble for each of the duchies?

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skerrigan
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:00 am

2 races - different talents/skills available by dukedom, like the Swordborn Carcassone trait?
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Orin J.
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:55 am

Oh don't get me wrong, i'm not implying that the nobles have any concerns about peasants getting manipulated (beyond the risk of it cutting into their own rule, i suppose) i mean that there's a rather obnoxious amount of traveling knights out looking for something they can call an "evil cult" to strike down to add to their heroic tales compared to the empire, where roadwardens and witch hunters are consistently overburdened and tend to stick to the larger cities as a base of operations

Knight of the Lady
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:12 pm

skerrigan wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:00 am
2 races - different talents/skills available by dukedom, like the Swordborn Carcassone trait?
I must ask you then, what the difference between like two races with 14 versions of each, and 28 races straight off? I do agree that 28 new races is probably to much, but I'm not sure what really separates your solution from mine. Would it be possible to get an example of how you envision your version to work?
Orin J. wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:55 am
Oh don't get me wrong, i'm not implying that the nobles have any concerns about peasants getting manipulated (beyond the risk of it cutting into their own rule, i suppose) i mean that there's a rather obnoxious amount of traveling knights out looking for something they can call an "evil cult" to strike down to add to their heroic tales compared to the empire, where roadwardens and witch hunters are consistently overburdened and tend to stick to the larger cities as a base of operations
Well, I don't know if its "my" Bretonnia or not, but it seems to me that many grail and questioning knights are pretty, well, not really interested in a godson or some eccentric behavior of the villagers, unless they can win something from it. Now a knight can certainly take offense at a godson and kill him, but I don't think there's a real organized effort to keep things clear, like there's an attempt for in the Empire. Its just a bunch of guys without coordination or a plan essentially wandering around as they fancy and killing critters they come across.

I would imagine that the real threat to a godson would come from local bailiffs or game keepers, people of commoner stock who knows the people and land and have an interest to act against things that upset the order, and to whom concerned villages MAY go to, but even then they are more likely to seek a village-level solution to the problem.

EDITED

Orin J.
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:02 pm

Hey, it's part of the knight's oath to protect the peasants! sure that might not mean they care about them and the flog them from time to time, but if someone (else) comes around making unfair demands of them and claiming they have a god's favor on their side well that smacks of blasphemy. and what better way to show the lady you are a chivalrous and valorous knight worthy of her favor than by saving the poor peasants from being mislead by treachery! and revolt. nobles hate revolts. gotta put any hint of those down. stupid peasants need to be saved from themselves.

besides, the empire's the one with a god who walked with men, and boned a lot of ladies. that there isn't more RPG adventures where you deal with a false(ish) son of sigmar is really a waste of the setting.

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skerrigan
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:25 am

Well, my approach to it would be similar to 2e's regional talents, rather than explicitly making Human (Bordeleaux Highborn) and Human (Couronne Lowborn) as explicit races. You say tomato, I say...

One of my favourite exchanges with my Knight Errant PC in our campaign went along the lines of...

"So, you say to the peasantry that a Bretonnian knight is their protector?"
"Of course!"
"And that is why you take their wealth."
"Why yes - to pay for their protection."
"So why do you need men-at-arms and peasant rabbles to use as the vanguard of your army. Aren't you having it both ways there."
"...."
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Knight of the Lady
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Re: Gurkhal's Careers for Bretonnia and Beyond

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:48 pm

Orin J. wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:02 pm
Hey, it's part of the knight's oath to protect the peasants! sure that might not mean they care about them and the flog them from time to time, but if someone (else) comes around making unfair demands of them and claiming they have a god's favor on their side well that smacks of blasphemy. and what better way to show the lady you are a chivalrous and valorous knight worthy of her favor than by saving the poor peasants from being mislead by treachery! and revolt. nobles hate revolts. gotta put any hint of those down. stupid peasants need to be saved from themselves.
Well, the part to "protect the peasants" isn't really a thing as far as I can see it. Its more of protecting the "innocent" and thus it can be angled in alot of different ways. Sure you can angle it to protecting the peasants from shenanigans but its just as easily to angle it away from the peasants.

Also in honestly I don't think that most knights have the interests or brains to actually moniter the morality of the peasants to the degree that they weed out "morally harmful influences". And I think that this is why I put the godsons primary in Bretonnia because it lacks an organized priesthood to keep a watch on the religious practices of the peasants with any sophistication. And even less so I think the Lady cares a bit about what gods the peasants cares for. She's about the nobility and enforcing some other deities's correct authorities with the peasants would not seem to get any points with her in my eyes.

Also this isn't rebellion as the godson would, in most cases, not be stiring them peasants up as much as skimming off the top what the noble's don't even know the peasants actually have in their possession.

In short I think that you take the relations between nobility and peasantry to be closer than I think, even if we would cut off the most extreme aspects, is the case in Bretonnia. The Bretonnian nobles does not, after all, run a police state rather than a pretty disorganized system of interconnected petty kingdoms, or something like it.
Orin J. wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:02 pm
besides, the empire's the one with a god who walked with men, and boned a lot of ladies. that there isn't more RPG adventures where you deal with a false(ish) son of sigmar is really a waste of the setting.
I totally agree with this. The absence of divine interaction, even if just in myth and story, with the people living in the world makes for some pretty apathic gods.
skerrigan wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:25 am
Well, my approach to it would be similar to 2e's regional talents, rather than explicitly making Human (Bordeleaux Highborn) and Human (Couronne Lowborn) as explicit races. You say tomato, I say...
I suppose that could work if you like to put it that way. But like you say, tOmato or tomAto.
skerrigan wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:25 am
One of my favourite exchanges with my Knight Errant PC in our campaign went along the lines of...

"So, you say to the peasantry that a Bretonnian knight is their protector?"
"Of course!"
"And that is why you take their wealth."
"Why yes - to pay for their protection."
"So why do you need men-at-arms and peasant rabbles to use as the vanguard of your army. Aren't you having it both ways there."
"...."
Brillient!

I think that my nice guy Bretonnian knights would have answered kind of like that. The meaner ones would not have been silent but quick drawn their swords and have at the irrespectable little bugger that questions them such, rather than being silent in the end. ;)

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