There are no challenges for adventurers

The enemy lurks in shadows
Post Reply
andrevieiramkt
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:06 am

There's something about the 4th edition of Warhammer that makes me suspect that game testing might have been overlooked. In the second edition, any large monster facing a group of adventurers would put up a good fight. But now, 6 thugs against 5 adventurers is much more troublesome than 1 River Troll. Essentially, a furious slayer with dual-wielder making 3 attacks, capable of dealing double damage on criticals, turns a troll into an easy challenge at best. Three shooters at half range attacking a large beast (+40) and a single 2600XP Slayer facing the troll alone, gaining +20 to hit the troll due to its size, using the troll's Toughness as SB. The troll's attack is not very easy to land (45) against a smaller target (-10).

If the GM doesn't create an overpowered troll with armor (6) and high healing ability, four leves of Hardy, there's simply no challenge. And the way the book describes what a troll is does not match the challenge it represents.
Zisse
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:14 pm

Numbers make a huge difference, as you indicated with your thugs example. Probably adding some henchmen to the troll is more efficient than giving him hardy and other boosts.
Nevertheless I understand your point, made similar experiences myself.
Chiron
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:50 pm

andrevieiramkt wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2024 5:37 am There's something about the 4th edition of Warhammer that makes me suspect that game testing might have been overlooked. In the second edition, any large monster facing a group of adventurers would put up a good fight. But now, 6 thugs against 5 adventurers is much more troublesome than 1 River Troll. Essentially, a furious slayer with dual-wielder making 3 attacks, capable of dealing double damage on criticals, turns a troll into an easy challenge at best. Three shooters at half range attacking a large beast (+40) and a single 2600XP Slayer facing the troll alone, gaining +20 to hit the troll due to its size, using the troll's Toughness as SB. The troll's attack is not very easy to land (45) against a smaller target (-10).

If the GM doesn't create an overpowered troll with armor (6) and high healing ability, four leves of Hardy, there's simply no challenge. And the way the book describes what a troll is does not match the challenge it represents.
Apparently the Grim trait from Imperial Zoo makes a big difference but I've not researched it much.


4e in general is very forgiving to players with its 4 metacurrencies
User avatar
Orin J.
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:39 pm

There's two things to keep in mind with this system when dealing with large enemies. firstly WS is king and without a LOT of it your other stats mean nothing. you cant make a big clumsy brute in 4th's system because it both loses and takes more damage from the low WS. secondly is that the melee system was very clearly built for 1v1duels and falls apart when the numbers aren't even.

this isn't even the tip of the rules jank iceberg with 4th (which is why my game group refused to play it) but if you want a troll to be a threat you're going to need to change your approach. especially if you have a party of players that all want to be combat roles instead of drunken phampleteers in over their heads.
Post Reply